Coming! This is a rumor I heard. It also struck me that Brent in some ways represents the inverse of Sandra Tanner. There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. I was only 8 when Steve died, so I just remember his smiling face and that everyone, especially my parents, just loved him. Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmanns victims. We hope to rerecord sometime next week. Jerald articulated his concerns in one of his ministrys publications. Yet a solid and detailed examination oflhe pre suppositions, methods, arguments, and conclusions of the vari ous readings of the Book of Mormon would still be very use Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. What do you attribute this decline to? They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. In Part 3, Brent discusses the aftermath of the Hofmann murders, including the trial and Hoffman's eventual plea deal. These scholars included Dan Vogel, Stan Larson, David P. Wright, and John Kunich. Yes! So sorry for the delay!!!! My mind was calm and at peace with God through the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. brent metcalfe excommunicated. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. Joseph didnt go like a lamb to the slaughter in burning down personal property he broke the law in a major way. God-belief has also been attributed partly to our brains evolved hyper-tendency to perceiveagency where none exists. Now, along with all of the other historical and literary problems, including DNA evidence, we are suppose to accept it on feelings and the spirit.like all religions do with their own faiths.and be excited about sharing this book with our friends! 515-294-6532. Once you start to deconstruct Mormonism, the next step is Christianity, and then the existence of a god, or not There are plenty of stops along that road to hang your hat, but the fastest growing belief system around the existence of god, is atheism. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. After returning from Iraq after the 2nd deployment as a citizen soldier, I had the same epiphany as Brent; I learned that we are really on our own, there is no God. He eventually concluded that the document was not an actual historical account and compiled a book of essays suggesting the same, entitling it New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, published in the 90s. My examples are numerous and heart breaking. Elbert was the managing editor, and Ron the financial guy, so I had the impression that Elbert created the whole thing. Once the Catholic scholar feels freed from the ostensible constraints of Catholic theology, it is questionable to what degree his scholarship is distinctively Catholic in the first place. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. What academic publications does Mr. Metcalfe have to his name that qualifies him to be called one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham? It was awful so stressful. I just shook my head to hear the tale of the magisterium giving you the boot, Brent. I dont agree with all the conclusions of your research but the research is a gift to all of us. Dave, Ive planned on publishing a book for years; but Ive decided to publish a series of articles first that the book will build upon. What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? I shared this source with Mike Quinn when he was writing _Early Mormonism and the Magic World View_. Boy, what a chilling conclusion. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. Thank you for this interview. Those mind-opening essays impacted my life in positive and powerful ways. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. We may be on our own and need to create our own justice and future, but its possible that Providence does in fact sometimes intervene. Thanks again Brent for sharing a sketch of your life with us. hillside christian church staff/ brent metcalfe excommunicated Create a Word Cloud at Tagxedo.Com. by Brent Metcalfe November 24, 2014 14 Comments Jan Shipps is the perfect inaugural interview for the Mormon Studies podcast. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. But being new to the church and so unacquainted with church matters and such things I was not much help. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. In Part 2, Brent describes working for and with Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, the Salamander Letter episode, and the bombings that took the lives of Steve and Kathy Sheets. Sincerely, Terry. had the same reaction to the Sandra Tanners interview. Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. The insight into the many corners of Mormonism important to us here was delicious. It was so amazing to hear another person explain nearly my identical experience. Signature Books. Carl, in parts 3 & 4 of the interview, Ill discuss the BoAbr and some of the challenges that believing scholars face in analyzing its ideational and textual origins. going back ten+ years when we first interacted online (message boards), but this interview gave me many more insights. In these two episodes we discuss: The aftermath of the Mark Hofmann bombings, and Brent's excommunication for his research into the Book of Mormon, and Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Please let us know. He could have never imagined the true extent of Marks crimes, though. Thanks Brent for sharing your story with usand to John for bringing it to us. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. You guys at MS are doing great. Or at least, Lets Take this Puppy Down.. Im not sure who made this comment, (I think that it was on another thread),But it went something like thisBased upon the bretherns actions regarding the Salamander letter, The LDS leadership thought that Mark Hofmann was telling the truth and that Joseph Smith was the fraud. As coincidence would have it, a few months later I became her home teacher. This theory is now well accepted in academia. Thank you for sharing it with me. And theres no way that you can change it. Thats something each person must decide for themselves, but Ive made peace with my own interpretation.. This is definitely a not-miss interview. There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. Has been quite a while since you had a podcast that wasnt left of center. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. He is their emotional support and Sue's constant companion, her voice, advocate and her angel. Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. It all depends on the depth of study one does. It seems to me that going with what you may think everyone around knows is right (even if it isnt) more easily allows for these kinds of experiences more than realizing there are differences of opinion and thought and then vying for spiritual confirmation. End of my short story. If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? Other early-19thC religionists were even more literal in their descriptions. Brent Lee Metcalfe's Assumptions and Methodologies Reviewed by William 1. Youve used it well Brent. I was nervous that you belonged to the catalyst crowd and relieved to hear your developed belief, or non belief. In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. She spoke of her life and what has happened in the 30 years since one of Utah's most infamous crimes, Thursday October 8, 2015. I devoutly attended BYU in the mid 70s. Definitely one of my top 10 favorite stories on here. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. Come to the dark side and tell your story. There are so many parallels between the happenings in my LDS life and Brents, (although nothing to such depth and notoriety) I was drawn to find more information about his life, while he was in the church and out. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. 2) It seems to me that most of the critiques in the 21st century arent recent developments, rather they already existed for sometimes decades (credit to Brodie and the Tanners for that). They claim that it occurred here in the USA siting scriptures and other things Joseph smith said. Without good research, ours is a heritage shallow in meaning. I have heard metaphysics mentioned in one of the interviews (I think it was the one on post declaration polygamy). Ack! [9] Metcalfe and the police were afraid Metcalfe might be a future target he went into hiding. It was stillbecause it all drove from the incredibility of the whole thing. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. Id like to hear Mr. Metcalfe address the character, integrity and morals of LDS apostles and prophets with regard to the books of A and M. Regarding the recent essay published by the LDS church regarding the Book of Abraham; what does he think they got right and what does he think is wrong? I was a newly returned missionary at BYU when all of this took place. That was fascinating, thank you. I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. The 7th East Press is one of the great university newspapers; truly the stars aligned when this group got together. Why didnt Mr. Metcalfe publish his long-anticipated book disproving the Book of Abraham? In Part 4, Brent examines some of the issues surrounding traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. And now, as per reports, Brent Metcalfe has been able to construct a healthy and happy life for himself outside of Mormonism, where he can continue to work as an independent scholar and technical editor without any issues or restrictions. It was soul-crushing, Brent said. I was curious about the book that Brent photocopied from the archives. New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. Surely, anyone who was even moderately sure of themselves in this case would have responded such as this : We have no idea where this letter came from, theres absolutely no truth in it and we disregard it completely.we maintain Josephs account to be true It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . Watch the full match. Riveting stuff. Fantastic interviews. If you ever get the chance to talk with Steve Christensens wife and/or Brent Metcalfe again, I would like to hear you explore this dichotomy with them as they are polar opposites. I thought Brents response to this question very touching and informative and dont see that his research should be discredited. Is it paramount to understand all of these religious histories and come to terms with them or, Brant for people like you and me, would it be better to turn our talents toward uncovering and deciphering Gobekli Tepe, a stone temple complex built 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age in Turkey, built by the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition? And much was going on. Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . SALT LAKE CITY Egyptologist Ed Ashment sympathizes with Washington anthropologist for now has escaped excommunication from the LDS Church. Learn how your comment data is processed. What is not to love about Johns revelation of your worthy biceps? John Are you done interviewing faithful members or promoting faithful stories? Are there still more episodes of this series on the way?? Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. [5][6], According to the Deseret News, the response from the apologetic community was "vitriolic. Or even presenting the center view? Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. Thank You for contributing your experiences with us all I am curious this morning about the possibility of any reports during the time JS says he had his First Vision, that were published in local newspapers, town Crier printings? Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. About a year or so ago when I finally left the church I looked him up to get advice and catch up on old times. I have question on the Book of Abraham. Thanks for the interview both of you. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. Brent Metcalf of the USA defeats Franklin Maren of Cuba to win Gold in the Men's 65kg Freestyle Final during the Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games at the. So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. 52K views 2 years ago Iowa's Brent Metcalf took down Ohio State's Lance Palmer in a thrilling title bout at 149 pounds in the 2010 NCAA wrestling championships. John and I recorded an additional four hours (till 1 AM). Very cool, any personal stories youd like to share? Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. We have to learn to get along and improve our conditions wherever we are and it is a much more difficult task because of all the varied belief systems prevalent in the world. It shows how establishment Apologists from FAIR and Interpreter and the rest of the former FARMS crew only care about your academic achievements even if you actually do do serious research on the Book of Abraham. We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. Twitter. Thanks for the clarification. Metcalfe believed that his firing was because of a few people in church leadership who perceived him as a threat, even though he viewed his own work as apologetic and not scholarly. The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. Honestly, incredible work. Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. Why didnt the church just pay for their own documents? Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). It is important that we be critical thinkers and examine the sources providing information, in the same way we would want to know the credentials of someone dispensing medical advice, car repair advice etc. She was very impressed with the level of esoteric teachings in the D&C and Pearl of Great price. And if Christianity/Mormonism is *false*, then were being done a tremendous service in this falsification. This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon.
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